What we learned from four years of PolicyJobsTO
Four years ago, we launched PolicyJobsTO — a weekly public policy jobs newsletter for the Toronto area. We wanted to address the overreliance on hidden job markets and informal networks that get in the way of connecting good people with good work. What started with a trial email to about 50 people has grown to a list of more than 5,000, and we have now shared about 2,000+ jobs.
If that qualifies us for a microcredential in public policy job postings, here are a few of the key lessons we’ve learned along the way:
(The following is a lightly edited and condensed version of a conversation between Jamie Van Ymeren and Noah Zon — the creators of PolicyJobsTO — on our team’s Slack)
No one posts entry-level jobs anymore…but you should.
Jamie: We’ve seen a huge decrease in the number of organizations that post entry level positions. They were already few and far between when we started in 2016, but there’s definitely been a notable decrease in the number of jobs that don’t call for much experience or explicitly call out new grads.
Noah: I can hardly think of any outside of governments and big consulting firms that do this on any regular basis. (And for those that do, 🍕 for you). Everyone wants someone with work experience, everyone thinks providing that experience is someone else’s job. We need that pipeline of talent.
Jamie: 🙌
If you’re hiring a human, try speaking to them like a human
Noah : Why do so many job postings seem to go out of their way to be as cold and remote as possible? For all the talk of robots coming for our jobs, we have seen lots of postings for humans to work on AI policy and exactly zero postings for AI to do human work. 🤖 💻 So given that these are efforts to recruit real life humans, maybe postings should talk like real life people?
Jamie: Heh, yes as much as a laughably wonky job description makes me giggle, it’s a big issue. If you want to find candidates that can actually do the job you’re posting for, it helps to clearly tell them what the job actually is.🤯
Noah: We often rewrite the descriptions we get a bit just because we can’t bear to post them in full-blown HR speak.
Jamie: Yeah… we do have to do that a lot. Employers, just remember that the job ad might be the first impression that a candidate has of your organization. If the job post is arcane and difficult to decipher, people are going to ascribe those same characteristics to what it’s like to work there.
Poor pay/lack of transparent pay
Noah: This one really gets me into rant mode. For a group of professionals that is supposed to be driven by evidence, the fact that very few jobs post even a hiring salary range is baffling. You have a budget, and these are people’s lives, you aren’t negotiating for a used car. A lack of pay transparency drives the gender wage gap and racial disparities.
Jamie: Yeah, posting salary ranges is such an easy thing that organizations can do that makes hiring a lot more inclusive. It should absolutely be the norm.
Noah: But even if you set aside the moral arguments (which you shouldn’t) — the potential upside here is what, you save a few thousand bucks at the expense of your staff? Compared to the cost of turnover, or wasting the time of people in the process that you’re going to want to work with in some way in the future.
Jamie: Yeah, I mean, we obviously agree on a lot of this stuff. One of the reasons we started PJTO is right there in every newsletter. We’re trying to “connect good people with good work”. Pay is a big part of that… i.e. tell people what they can expect to be paid and also pay them a reasonable amount. Ahem… LOOKING AT YOU POORLY PAID INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITIES.👀👀👀
Credential inflation
Noah: One thing we’ve definitely noticed is more and more calls for advanced degrees. Nothing against a master’s degree over here but I’ve definitely heard hiring managers explicitly admit that they do it just to reduce the number of applications to compare. Do you think it should be so common to ask for a graduate degree?
Jamie: Umm, yes and no. You get a lot of research methods and critical thinking experience in grad school. But it’s definitely not actually REQUIRED to be a good policy wonk. I’ve hired lots of people who don’t have a policy background to do policy things and it’s totally fine. I think it really depends on the person. The issue is that grad school is an expensive and imperfect proxy. Moral of the story: if you’re going to ask for a graduate degree, make it a preferred qualification versus a required one! You’ll miss out on wunderkind geniuses if you don’t.
Jamie: I think the bigger issue is the number of years of experience that people are asking for. There is a huge mismatch between the years of experience many job postings ask for and how many you actually need to do the job. It’s a huge false barrier.
There are now way more opportunities to do public policy outside of government.
Jamie: I obviously don’t have the numbers to back me up on this but it also seems like there are more interesting opportunities to do policy work outside of government than when we started.
Noah: One of the things I have enjoyed most about being a part of the newsletter through these years is seeing all sorts of roles and organizations that I wouldn’t have known about otherwise. But because they aren’t “in one place” people often don’t know about them.The public policy schools still gear graduates to work in government. And I’m all for public service, but there’s lots of different ways to be part of the policymaking process.
Jamie: Yes! There should be more awareness about what an outside of government, but still working in public policy career looks like…because I think there are lot of really interesting things that people have done. hmmmm *scribbles idea down for future PolicyJobsTO*
The public sector hiring process needs to change.
Jamie: Ok, time for me to rant. I think in terms of hiring processes, public sector is falling behind in a big way. We’re at this really weird point where I think so many of the systems that were created to make public sector hiring fair and transparent are actually now serving to keep people out. Robotic and unclear job descriptions, lengthy multi-step hiring processes, and standardized skill tests that play into the hands of people who have a good master’s of public policy degree mean that people who don’t have the insider knowledge and the luxury of time to wait on a hiring decision get pushed out.
Noah: That waiting time is no joke: I can’t keep track of the number of times I’ve heard people called back for jobs they applied to six months before and invited for an interview — and they can’t even remember anything about the job. But I think the “wall of silence” that people face in the typical government interview is probably the thing that should go first. It comes from a good place — wanting a fair consistent evaluation, but it really throws people off, especially if they’re not expecting it. The point isn’t to catch people off guard, it’s to learn about them.
Make time to talk to people!
Noah: I’ll admit, I’m not as good at this as I used to be (even pre-pandemic). When you’re busy it’s hard to put these into your calendar. But if you’re looking for your next role, you should make the time to reach out to people. And when you get that request, you should do what you can to help people who reach out. I sure as hell didn’t get where I am on my own.
Jamie: Yeah, I think truthfully there is a fine balance to walk. For jobseekers: people are happy to hear from you, but if you’re just coming to a meeting like “hey give me a job” and they don’t have a job to give you, then that’s kind of a missed opportunity. Have a real conversation with that person, learn from their experience, the good and bad of their job and their advice on how to position yourself. For people taking the coffee meeting: if you meet someone who seems good, check-in with them periodically!
Noah: In my experience, people are typically very happy to get a chance to help someone. But you do often have to go past the people more visible. As a general rule, the more visible/senior someone is in their organization, the more requests they will get. But I hear from experienced hiring managers who tell me they wish people would reach out for advice.
